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101 comments

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    ykadmin

    I am responding according to your numbers

    1. I am talking about sites which OpenDNS considers top sites like beforeitsnews.com about.me sixflags.com

    4. A staff member from OpenDNS this is their product.

    6. Here you have more sites related to that subject ytimg.com amazonaws.com, 1. Its piling up in the tagging system 2. If you use Umbrella reporting you want to have the maximum sites with categories for better visibility.

    9. For some people who have permission to vote and then approve a site it's multiple steps currently with some waiting time in between I am suggesting one simple step, if you don't have that type of permission believe me OpenDNS understands very well this suggestion.

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    captaincutter

    Clean up the domains submitted. I would like to see domains be removed if not approved in a year. If the domain has not received the votes in a year it does no good anyway since it is not blocked. There are a lot of junk submissions that need to be removed.

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    cervezafria

    +1... that might even improve voting... Who wants to bother voting on a 3-year-old submission. Many of these even expired.

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    captaincutter

    Anything submitted before 1/1/13 should be deleted. Anything rejected should be deleted.

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    Brian Hartvigsen

    @bobsled - rejected tags can always be flagged, we do not delete tags due to age alone and doing so could very likely lead to worse data, not better.

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    captaincutter

    Aren't only approved domains blocked? Why leave millions of tags that have no action in the queue when there is nothing being done with them?

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    captaincutter

    I am not suggesting remove approved tags.

     

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    Brian Hartvigsen

    Rejected tags serve a similar purpose.  While only approve tags are blocked rejected tags state that we have specifically reviewed the domain for that content and rejected the categorization as appropriate.

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    captaincutter

    So what is going to be done about millions of undecided tags? They are not being voted and moderated quickly enough. There are too many so what is going to be done about that? I was suggesting what seemed a reasonable solution. I am at the point where I am going to just give up if all the junk isn't cleared out. Having to vote no on a majority of tags that are wrong is a waste of time. if they weren't there anymore because they are a year old would help to make OpenDNS more effiecient for it's customers who are voting and moderating.

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    rotblitz

    bobsled, I tend to agree with you that undecided domains being in the system longer than a year can disappear without any quality decrease to the domain tagging system, but to the contrary, it will be an improvement.

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    professorplum

    proxies should be automatically tagged.  One can crawl through all the various proxy websites and get those URLs.  How hard is that?

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    captaincutter

    I would be so bold as to say that the slate needs to be cleaned and all domains submitted before 1/1/14 that have not been approved or rejected be deleted. I do not get paid to moderator and use my best judgment when moderating. It is like a a desk filled with millions of pieces of paperwork. Throw away everything not approved or rejected before 1/1/14 and clear this backlog so those who have the time and desire to vote and moderate can do so more effectively.

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    captaincutter

    By the way, I believe that would make sense to use as a yearly standard. Start the year off fresh and be more effective. It seems the paid employees mostly work on managing the network and the voting and moderating is an unpaid function of the community members who are using the product. So please help those who use OpenDNS  be able to get the most benefit out of it.

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    tezcatlix

    I'm an user of the filter content from OpenDNS and I'd say I'm happy with the blocking of online games, porn, adware and other categories. However I have a teen daughter and nephews and I'm very worried about Pro-Ana and Pro-Mia sites.

    So I'm tagging any site than I can found (specially blogspot since its content policy seems very disdainful of anything else that is not an IP violation), but I'm somewhat deceived seeing now the "catch all" category seems to be now Tasteless rather than "Porn" as rotblitz says. I've found lots of sites tagged from 5 years ago and many of them looks like were tagged just because the tagger disliked those sites, then "Tasteless" fitted to the dislike.

    I'm thinking on applying as moderator at least to helping the tagging of these sites harmful to kids and teens, however I'd like to know if you have some advice on what should I expect to do as tagging moderator.

    Anyway, thanks for the great job, I'm getting more and more engaged with these community and even begin to teach other parents and teachers how to enable this tools to bring better security to their homes and classrooms.

    Peace.

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    miheerdw

    I am new to Open Dns and use it for filtering. I think that to speed up the tagging, we can use an automated classifier the following way -

    • Depending on how sure the classifier is about the suggested tag, lesser number of votes are necessary before it goes to the moderators.

    I am mainly thinking about this in the context of Adult sites and proxies, where your classifier can reasonably guess if it it of that type or not.

    Also another thing I would like to suggest, displaying  "Votes necessary to pass" and allow sorting on that key.

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    jeffcook2

    I think a good way to accelerate some of the domain tagging, might be to apply some analytics to the process.  For example based off past tagging history does this user add new domains that usually get approved or denied?   When voting on a site do the moderators tend to agree or disagree with them?

    Then a little extra weight can be added to the users with a good history of submitting and voting, thus speeding up the process.  

     

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    woknet

    no, the current method is ok. I seen some sites have been incorrectly tagged. mostly because they change from being a parked domain to a real domain

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    woknet

    I say have a crawler go through each site submitted by the community and then have the crawler tag such domains. of those domains tagged, allow the community to vote on such tags for better accuracy 

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    karl_p

    One random sample of tagging: I opened the tagging list and selected category "Pornography". there is a list of 21 domains shown:

    2 added in 2008
    13 added in 2009
    4 added in 2010
    1 added in 2013.

    (!)

    voting at the first 10 lines:

    1 - OK- relevant domain
    2 - domain does not exist
    3 - site closed (no content)
    4 - category was already rejected
    5 - OK- second relevant domain
    6 - site closed, for sale
    7 - OK- third relevant domain
    8 - site parked
    9 - category was already approved
    10 - OK - fourth relevant domain.

     

    What I'd like to point out here: it's really dismotivating to rate. Only four out of 10 are really relevant to rate (and only one matched the category "pornography" by the way).

    And all of them were added years ago - why should I rate it if I can expect it will not be decided in the next 4 years too ..

     

    Maybe I see it too naively, as Internet democracy is not a simple thing; but I would request to 

    • add a possibility to mark domains as "to be removed" or "to be re-tagged" in case that it has been removed or parked. "review" is currently only possible for categories which were already approved. How to ensure that this functionality is not misused - no idea yet...
    • improve the filtering and sorting possibilities (to get rid of old entries)
    • improve the selection (and don't show domains in the list which were already rejected/approved in the chosen category)
    • and I like the "Votes necessary to pass" idea of miheerdw - maybe it would motivate people to see that they are close to the final...
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    dan.h

    Can pending sites be blocked?  Currently you can specify the categories that you want blocked.  What if there was another option to also block sites that have been tagged with one or more of the categories that you want blocked, even if they haven't received enough votes.  This would be a more aggressive approach and given that some sites are mis-categorized, some things would be incorrectly blocked.  That's ok though, because then you would be more motivated to go in and downvote the site's incorrect tag.  Additionally you could go in and white-list that site for yourself until the community agrees with you.

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    rotblitz

    "Can pending sites be blocked?"

    Sites cannot be blocked with a DNS service, just domains.  And yes, you can block every domains individually, no matter if they belong to a category or not.

    " What if there was another option to also block sites that have been tagged with one or more of the categories that you want blocked, even if they haven't received enough votes."

    Then you got the wrong thread.  There are two other related ideas in the idea bank here:

    • Add an option to block uncategorized domains in general.
    • Add an option to block tagged but not approved domains where you have the related categories blocked (exactly what you're asking for).
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    dan.h

    rotblitz, this thread is about reducing the time of the approval process. What I'm suggesting would drastically reduce the impact of this problem. I don't think that my comment is so off topic to suggest that it doesn't belong on this thread.

    That being said, looks like your searching abilities far surpass my own. I'm not seeing the second idea you referenced, which is exactly what I'm talking about. Can you provide the actual name or a link so that I can + 1 it?

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    dbcc

    I agree with a few of the above idea's, but there are alternatives.

    I think the first way is to reduce the number of submitted sites. As pointed out by others, some people like to add a site to 20 categories.
    But the biggest problem is the submission of thousands of domains by single users. If those submissions are accurate: fine. But most of them aren't. How can someone submit 250.000 domains in just 2 months and be accurate?
    Someone has categorized thousands of newspapers as 'pornography', why are we letting these community members go on with submitting more and more of these nonsense. As these people get negative votes, why can they endlessly submit new nonsense?
    I'm currently tagging the oldest domains (2008) in pornography, most of the sites do no longer exist, most of them for years. But someone likes to submit all of these no longer existing sites as 'sexuality'. Is somebody looking at the users and how they behave? In my opinion these users should get a warning and finally be banned for spamming the tagging system and their submissions should be cancelled if they are obviously wrong and didn't get any votes yet.
    Currently these users are honored with badges as top-users while they are ruining the process.

    Secondly there could be some sort of automation in the process. DNS queries are quite simple to do and if domains do not exist, they should not be let into the tagging process. Parked domains are often rerouted to domain-sellers, I've ended up on the same "this domain is for sale" page hundreds of times, if this could be detected, then it could be identified as a parked domain and voting for other categories could be prevented.
    Domains that are simply rerouted to other sites could get (inherit) the tags of the site that they are sending the people to.
    And I'm sure other people have other ideas about some automation. It should remain a manual process where community members and a moderator decide, but in some cases less votes should be required or just the decision of the moderator.

    Last of all I see that people are encouraged to apply as moderator. I've done so 6 weeks ago, but didn't get any reaction so far.

    Regards, Daniel

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    cervezafria

    The sad truth is that nothing that comes from these forums will ever be implemented by ODNS. This is just a playground for the free users to amuse themselves with. Domain tagging is the same. Tag all you like; dispute all you like; it is just wasted energy.

    If you want a clean feed, use the great firewall of China. ODNS is dead to free users.

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    mattwilson9090

    @dbcc Some good ideas and comments. I agree about the people who seem to be deliberately spamming or poisoning the tagging system, whatever their motivation may be. Sadly, I think there are a lot of people in this world who don't really know what pornography is, except that it's "bad", and they don't like it, so everything they don't like, approve of, or they think should "go away" get's labeled by them as pornography.

    I like your ideas about automation. Basically an initial filtering process that doesn't prevent human decision making. I don't know how well or easily it could be implemented, but the concept itself is a good one.

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    hellminister

    One way to get votes faster could be to send to a network administrator (a registered user) the list of sites that was access from his network and that is currently being tag-considered with one of the tags that that administor has asked to be blocked. That way, sites that are popular will get their tagging faster as this method would probably reach to a lot more users and will show the sites of interest to be tagged.

     

    For those who dont want to be bothered with this at all, there could be an opt-out system

     

    My 2 cents.

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    eworbit

    OPENDNS NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE BY EXCEPTION. IMPLEMENT A SPIDER.

    Domains submitted: 10,867,702
    Domains decided: 3,129,111
    Open DNS Effective Rate: 29% (far lower since not all domains are submitted for tagging)

    As smart as the ODNS guys are, they apparently have NO spidering technology to autotag domains.  I think it would be quite easy to detect an "adult" website and if you don't think so, then you need to gracefully exit the IT field.  Furthermore, if the spider algorithm is wrong then you HANDLE BY EXCEPTION.

    Don't give me this "only humans" can provide quality garbage.  The 29% number you see above nullifies your argument.  

    OPENDNS NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE BY EXCEPTION. IMPLEMENT A SPIDER.
    OPENDNS NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE BY EXCEPTION. IMPLEMENT A SPIDER.
    OPENDNS NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE BY EXCEPTION. IMPLEMENT A SPIDER.

    Get it!?

    ******

    Brian Hartvigsen: "Certain categories (such as many of the "adult" categories) have a lower threshold then others."
    Brian, are the thresholds kept up with using Microsoft Excel?

    rotblitz: "Any automatisms most likely decrease the quality. Only increased human engagement can improve the speed by retaining a high level of quality."
    Total bologne, rotblitz.

    cervezafria: "The sad truth is that nothing that comes from these forums will ever be implemented by ODNS."
    You are correct!

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    rotblitz

    "OPENDNS NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE BY EXCEPTION."

    They really do this already, as I have thankfully experienced.  I reported domains or bigger list of domains for category changes, and this was manually worked within 3 business days.  So what?

    "IMPLEMENT A SPIDER."

    That would not be the concept of the current Domain Tagging System, but something totally different.  Do you want to change everything?

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    mattw-uk

    I've just started to look at ODNS for filtering of family home network.  I have spent many years in the filtering business for enterprise solutions (& a few sales to country ISPs).  In my initial use of the voting system, I got frustrated quickly that the domains presented for review had all been submitted years ago.

    If the community was able to filter the view to show the domains submitted in the last N weeks - that could lead to quicker resolution as "active" submissions would get more views by the community and therefore highlighted to a moderator as it will reach the voting threshold quickly.  Additionally ordering by activity (or applying a weighting to the view) so that domains that are being seen as requested for DNS resolution and hence being actively visited in the community can be voted on, rather than wasting time reviewing something that gets 1 request a fortnight.

    To make life easier for voting - adding mouseover events to give the description of the categories on the voting page would allow voters to easily double-check the intended use of the category. Currently I have to have the categories page open in a separate tab.

    Matt

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