why is enablement of DDNS both poorly documented, confusing and poorly architected >?

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18 comments

  • Avatar
    rotblitz

    You need to tell OpenDNS your IP address so that they are able to associate your DNS lookups with your settings, else your dashboard settings will not take effect.

    If your router already supports updates for OpenDNS or DNS-O-Matic, you can safely uninstall the software client.  Your router's updates are fully sufficient.

    And DNS-O-Matic is to propagate updates to multiple services with one updater (software or router or what) being used.

  • Avatar
    Kristy Patullo

    OpenDNS does not provide DDNS services.  The reason we provide an updater client is so that your dashboard IP address and network IP address stay in sync so that custom network settings such as filtering and stats remain correct even if your IP address changes.  For more information please see: https://support.opendns.com/entries/42170164-OpenDNS-What-does-a-Recursive-DNS-Provider-do-

    You can use a DDNS Client or router firmware such as Tomato to update your dashboard IP address in OpenDNS but you won't be able to create a reachable domain (such as myname.opends.com) without using a DDNS service.

  • Avatar
    noiver

    Thanks for trying, but what does dnsomatic do ?

    You should really provide much better documentation -  roblizt who seems to be on these fora often gave one answer, you are telling me OpenDNS does not provide DDNS - so what does it do for the free user other  than allow filtering (which can be accomplished on my router sort of)and a good DNS server which I dont need to register for ?  What does DNS o matic do then ?

    Please FIX THE DOCS !!!

  • Avatar
    rotblitz

    "you are telling me OpenDNS does not provide DDNS - so what does it do for the free user other  than allow filtering (which can be accomplished on my router sort of)and a good DNS server which I dont need to register for ? "

    Nothing else.  OpenDNS provides fast and reliable recursive DNS for your DNS queries, content filtering, security with blocking phishing and some malware domains, and DNS statistics about your DNS queries.

    "a good DNS server which I dont need to register for ?"

    You need to use DNS - anyway, and you already use it, no matter if OpenDNS or another.  Even if you're not aware of this.

    "What does DNS o matic do then ?"

    Again, DNS-O-Matic is to propagate your IP address updates to multiple services with one updater (software or router or what) being used.  Wasn't this clear enough?  That is different from OpenDNS, but can be used to update also OpenDNS.

  • Avatar
    maintenance

    Nowhere does OpenDNS or DNS-O-Matic claim to be DDNS hosting, and their docs clearly say they do not. 

    http://www.opendns.com/

    http://dnsomatic.com/

    Pretty clear right from the landing pages.  If you want to assume (and many do, for many things) that anything with "DNS" in it is specific to what one wants at the moment, then every service ever having to do with some aspect of DNS usage would need to list everything that they are not on the front page. Almost nothing in the world works that way. Consequently, I wouldn't doubt people go here http://www.simpledns.com/ or here http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html and ask what their IP addresses are. It's not a problem with the sites.

     

     

  • Avatar
    jakartadean

    I don't share the same level of frustration as the original poster, but it does seem to me that the OpenDNS service would be more seamless if I could enter my domain name, not my current dynamic IP address as the primary identifies.  Your software could base its knowledge of me based on that domain name, not a temporary IP address.  Does that not make sense?

     

    Cheers,

    Dean

  • Avatar
    rotblitz

    Yes, it makes sense but has always been refused for security reasons, because someone else could simply update your OpenDNS network with another IP address sabotating your content filtering, stats and other settings.  Therefore updates must originate from the IP address which is to be used for an update, not from some hostname where the IP address could point to anything.

  • Avatar
    noiver

    So can anyone explain what DNS o Matic is for ? Why do OpenDNS and DNS o Matic both have clients that report the WAN ip address ?

    Even worse why does tomato provide OpenDNS as a DDNS provider.  Of course you can't answer the latter question, but you can see why all of this is confusing ... I will repeat again, please provide a simple explanation for the casual user.   If you like I will write it.

     

  • Avatar
    Kristy Patullo

    When using OpenDNS, custom filtering settings and statistics are tied to a user's public IP address.  If a user has a dynamic IP address, when the IP changes, they will lose their stats and filtering settings unless their IP address has a way of being updated.  Dynamic IP updater clients ensure that the IP address registered in a user's dashboard matches the IP address assigned by their internet service provider and prevents gaps in stats and filtering if their IP address changes.  For this reason we provide ways to keep your IP address updated in the dashboard.  DNS-O-Matic provides you a free and easy way to announce your dynamic IP changes to multiple services with a single update.  If you use more than 1 service that relies on knowing your current public IP you can configure them in DNS-O-Matic and DNS-O-Matic will notify all of them of the change.

  • Avatar
    noiver

    Thanks I appreciate the answer, but think of what this would have been had all of that information been clearly laid out ahead of time ?  None of this frustration for one thng. For you it is very clear,  because you work at OpenDNS  for the casual user it is not.   Why not just fuse DNS o Matic into OpenDNS ?  What's the point of having 2 services which OK, they don't do the same thing, but DNS -o Matic is a superset of OpenDNS ?  It's the same company after all ..  One other thing, why not offer a DDNS service also, you have the infrastructure in place to do this I'm sure.

     

  • Avatar
    rotblitz

    "think of what this would have been had all of that information been clearly laid out ahead of time ?"

    It had.  See https://support.opendns.com/categories/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=dynamic+IP&for_search=1&commit=Search

    "Why not just fuse DNS o Matic into OpenDNS ?"

    I can't speak for OpenDNS, but DNS-O-Matic can be used without ever having heard about OpenDNS, and vice versa.  Better to keep different things separate, else it will be even more confusing when mixing them up.

    "DNS -o Matic is a superset of OpenDNS ?"

    Nope, disagreed.

  • Avatar
    noiver

    It had.  See https://support.opendns.com/categories/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=dynamic+IP&for_search=1&commit=Search

    Well, that's a deep query to find a piece of fundamental information, don't you think ?

    can't speak for OpenDNS, but DNS-O-Matic can be used without ever having heard about OpenDNS, and vice versa.  Better to keep different things separate, else it will be even more confusing when mixing them up.

    "DNS -o Matic is a superset of OpenDNS ?"

    Nope, disagreed.

    OK so its easy to go eristic here, but the question for the user is "if one application only sends messages to Open DNS and the other sends it to OpenDNS and others, why is DNS O Matic not a Superset of OpenDNS's signaling ?   I venture they may have totally different origins and codebase, but why for the user is not one a superset of the other and in the end that is who matters ?

    Software always goes in cycles where the first cycle contains profilagate different functions all targeted at the same problem. For example when image editing software came out there was a myriad of applications each doing something basic (like drawing geometric objects ) and something separate like merging vector images with raster images.  In the end there was one.

    Look at code development, when OO came out there was the same problem -  a myriad of confusing tools.  And now here we are looking at something a whole lot simpler -  a messaging app, perhaps a service, which sends messages to 1 end point and another which sends it to multiple end points. 

    How can you say "nope" to my question without at least substantiating the answer,  and do you speak for DNS o Matic and OpenDNS ?  Lest you think I am poking you in the eye, I am not, I'm trying to ascertain whether this is OpenDNS's position or a position of someone who knows these two products ostensibly at a level where those answers can be relied on

     

  • Avatar
    Alexander Harrison

    DNS-O-Matic is a product by OpenDNS that allows you to update multiple IP Update services through one master service. One of the services that DNS-O-Matic is capable of updating is the OpenDNS service. The two are entirely divorced from each other with the exception that your OpenDNS IP address can be updated by the DNS-O-Matic service (just like DynDNS, No-IP, etc). If you are only interested in updating your OpenDNS registered IP address, please use the OpenDNS Updater API rather than the DNS-O-Matic service to remove the extra step that you do not wish to use. 

  • Avatar
    maintenance

    OpenDNS and DNSOMatic are not user software. They are 2 completely different services. Both make use of an IP updater client. Software cycles have zero to do with this. Neither is a superset of the other. They can overlap conceptually at very small and discreet points.  Signaling and updaters are rather irrelevant - the services are the points of interest. And for OpenDNS, it is incidental. For DNSOMatic, it is central.

    Consider even the nature of DNSOMatic itself: Why did they find a niche in which to provide such a service when any updater from any service could easily update any other service?  Why don't all the DDNS hosting providers share a common updater already, which can sequentially update multiple services?  (Someone who actually writes an independent updater is planning on doing that in his next release.)

    Even if DNSOMatic and OpenDNS chose to use the same omnibus updater, why would one be going to one site or the other for the wrong purpose in the first place? And if a casual user ended up on one site or the other anyway, and looked at the landing page, they know what the services offered are and can decide "oops, wrong place" and move on.

    If you want to know who officially speaks for OpenDNS, those would be the people posting with an avatar which clearly indicates such.

  • Avatar
    noiver

    I think you are missing the point with all due respect.  From an end user perspective all one cares about is whether something works. In this case that something is the ability to access a network behind a NAT enabled through a dynamic ip address.  Just look at this whole discussion -  you are talking about services and trying make a point about the fact that there is no common approach to dynamically updating an IP address.  I dont care if it is a service, an application or if it manages to transfer an ip address by quantum teleportation.  I just care that I can access my IP address "behind" a NAT.  DNS o Matic and OpenDNS appear to do that.  Yet one does so for many different "services" and one does it for only 1.  I can bet you a pile of drachmas that most of the end users dont care about how it's accomplished only that it is.

     

    I'm sure you are correct about the underlying difference in approaches but you ask  "Even if DNSOMatic and OpenDNS chose to use the same omnibus updater, why would one be going to one site or the other for the wrong purpose in the first place? And if a casual user ended up on one site or the other anyway, and looked at the landing page, they know what the services offered are and can decide "oops, wrong place" and move on."

    Your other questions above are exactly the questions I am asking, although I imagine by now people are thinking "I dont know what this is all about these people are just arguing"   But I can tell you if I were an investor,  I would want to know the difference  in fact why dont you present this thread to your VCs -  I bet they would ask the same question.

    The question for me is "why bother having 2 clients or services to do the same thing".  Its simply not clear what their overall differences as far as the end user are concerned.  I still don't understand it.  Please explain it to me.

  • Avatar
    rotblitz

    Welcome back after two weeks!

    "In this case that something is the ability to access a network behind a NAT enabled through a dynamic ip address."

    This is the purpose of this site in no way.  Clearly, you got the wrong forum to discuss this area.

    " I just care that I can access my IP address "behind" a NAT."

    Good to know, but not in any way related here.  You'll visit the forums of a dynamic DNS service provider, ideally the one of your choice.  However, OpenDNS isn't a provider of such services.  Clear enough?  You mention DynDNS above ("DynDNS was a simple system to use with my tomato 1.28 shibby router.") which is such a dynamic DNS provider, but they no longer offer free services.  But there are dozens of others still providing this service for free.  Again, OpenDNS is not a provider of this service.

    "I would want to know the difference"

    Now you know, hopefully, do you?

    "The question for me is "why bother having 2 clients or services to do the same thing"."

    Yes, why bother.  The concept is the other way around.  People may explicitly ask for "having 2 clients or services to do the same thing" after they selected one of the .  dynamic DNS service providers, but only then.  Then DNS-O-Matic is the answer for them, possibly not for you yet if you don't need it.  So easy.  So why care or bother...

  • Avatar
    rotblitz

    Oh, back to the topic you selected for this thread: why is enablement of DDNS both poorly documented, confusing and poorly architected

    Ha, even worse, it is not documented at all, because OpenDNS does not offer DDNS.  So easy!  Would you mind then?  All clear now?

    (Sorry, I should have guessed earlier what you're really after...  I would have told you that you can't find here what you're looking for.)

  • Avatar
    Kristy Patullo

    I believe all of the questions posed in this forum post have been addressed so I will close it for comments.  If you have feature requests or suggestions feel free to add them to our Idea Bank here: https://support.opendns.com/forums/21211727-Idea-Bank

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